Sunday, November 10, 2013

Yirei Elokim/Chachma Debate

In Perek 7 we are introduced to the Chacham. He is essentially a realist. He tells the Neheneh that dying is a reality, and that instead of ignoring or running away from this fact, he should face it and create meaning in his life. He then goes on to address the Amal, saying, again, that we all die eventually so there's no point in getting angry or stuck on it. Lastly, he responds to the Yirei Elokim. He says, "Even YOU sin, Yirei Elokim. Don't think that you are so righteous. Everyone sins."

The Yirei Elokim then responds to the Chacham saying the source of true wisdom is from G-d's commandments (this is the good kind of wisdom), and that the Chacham is only using human understand (the bad kind of wisdom), examining the world using his own intellect, values, and moral/ethical sense.

The Yirei Elokim's response is hard for me to understand. How should we, merely humans, truly understand the world through G-d's eyes? We can't. I'd like to argue that looking through G-d's Torah and commandments requires human understanding. Interpreting the Torah must involve human understanding. We cannot truly have Chachma derived from G-d because we aren't G-d, and therefore we don't truly, fully understand his wisdom. Am I making any sense? I hope so.

I'm a fan of the Chachma. He tells it like it is and I can totally respect that.
#Chachma4Prez!!!!

5 comments:

  1. Nugs. I just responded to this and it got deleted so here is my new response:
    I am with ya, Lils! I wrote my blog about my love for the Chacham too. He just makes so much sense. He also shows you what is important in life and what the reality is. He does not try to sugarcoat everything, he just says it how it is. Everyone needs those people in their lives so they realize what is important. I believe the Chacham will help is find a purpose in life. I hope he finds one soon because this stuff is depressing!

    ReplyDelete
  2. I also am a fan of the Chachum. I'd vote for him. I also think that it is possible to derive wisdom from G-d, though. I don't think the Yirei Elokim is saying that we have to see the world through G-d's eyes..I think he's saying that G-d is the one who created morality and ethics and well..everything, so we should understand that our wisdom comes from G-d and we are not the ones who decide what is moral and what isn't.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I liked your ending! (again :D) I completely agree with you, I think interpreting the Torah requires human understanding, and quite a lot of it. I feel like what you said about not understanding G-d's wisdom is going to pop up soon in the Perek. I think the Chacham is going to argue this point eventually, and probably (unfortunately) come to the conclusion that because we can't understand everything, Hakol Hevel.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I liked the ending as well! Although he was kind of voted off the ballot (unofficially) by the Yirei Elokim, his points are definitely of value. He offers a realistic approach that might be able to complement that of the Yirei Elokim. Although G-d is in control, we still have a mission in this world and we do need human understanding to accomplish. I feel like each one offers a different way to see each part of the world. No one perspective presides over the other.

    ReplyDelete
  5. It's so interesting to read a post written before we learned about the Chacham's final speech. Before, when this was his philosophy, I really liked him as well. I thought he had a lot of potential to be great. (Perhaps not the greatest, but definitely great.) However, the Chacham's final conclusion of "Hakol Hevel" irks me the most. Is all of this despair really necessary? I hope not. I feel like the Chacham's philosophy would work if it were paired with another philosophy, like the Yirei Elokim's. If man can use intellect to understand the world and G-d's existence, wouldn't that make everything much more clear? Yes, the doubts would still exist, but you don't have to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I feel like this is how I personally approach faith. Regardless of what Kohelet's final conclusion is, Chachma will always be important to the way that millions of people approach Judaism.

    ReplyDelete